“The BEST Sales Page copy. Ever.”
(Actual quote)
It might currently feel like it, but I can promise you:
* you’re not imagining how hard it is to write your Sales Page yourself
* you’re not alone going bananas trying to find a copywriter who specialises in conversion copy rather than just pretty words on a screen
* it’s not magic
In fact: it’s a recipe!
Your ‘thing’
doesn’t matter if it’s a baking course for kids or a 12 month high-level mastermind
+ a Sales Page copywriter
specialising in UX friendly, conversion copywriting
= sweet, sweet sales
plus hearts-on-fire, rave-about-you-to-everyone return clients and loyal advocates
That’s it. That’s the secret blend
And, my friend, you just found the goodness in the middle!
Here’s another truth:
When it comes to Sales copy, brand storytelling won’t cut it.
Elle Roberts, Marketing Strategist, was the one raving about a Sales Page I wrote for our mutual client (that snazzy quote above). That particular client then wrote to me with:
“I’ve never gotten to the end of a Sales Page and been sad. But, reading your first draft, I was so sorry to see the end.”
I bet you’re gunning to see the end of yours.
Especially if you’re DIYing.
Because just when you thought creating the thing you want to sell was the hard part, you’ve come to the selling of it. And you’ve written your own Sales Page. Because, damn, how hard could it be? Aren’t you the best person to tell the world about your amazing/groundbreaking/supremely helpful thing?
Only it isn’t working.
A brilliant Sales Page can skyrocket your sales, just by maximising the way the words are used on the page. User experience, an inherent understanding of your ideal client, brand positioning, whipping those conversion copywriting principles into line – your Sales page should be bending over backwards to get you the dollar bills, not slacking off like an independently wealthy teenager.
Luckily, you’ve just bonded over donuts with a Sales Page conversion copywriter.
You want your Sales Page to *sing*
and it’s currently whispering to itself in the corner
This is a job for CRISP!
“Jay Crisp Crow stood out to me online by keeping it real and cracking me up. I loved her attitude and honesty. We got into a conversation about photoshoots and inspirations and I was hooked! So when I needed to level up my business I had a few choices I could make. Hiring her was the right choice.
She sent me everything I needed, super step-by-step easy, and actually got me to sit down and really get into my vision.
Then she sent me the copy. It was like she was in my head, but way BETTER!
She took my topic, a taboo topic (periods!), and my humor, and combined them to make something that was accessible to normal human beings.
I’m so far in my own world that it’s hard for me to bring it back to basics, to explain what’s happening in a way that other people can understand. To create a real connection with me and my audience. I’ve never gotten to the end of a Sales page and been sad, but reading Jay’s first draft I was so sorry to see the end!
I’m beyond thrilled with what Jay created for me and my Sales page, and I’ll be bringing her on board for so many more projects to come!
THANK YOU Jay! I spent years struggling to get a cohesive, sensible, Sales page together, I wish I had found you years ago.”
Stasha Washburn – Period Coach + Revolutionary
You know what readers like to see on Sales Pages?
*sigh* it’s not as fun as words…
Ta da! Welcome to the numbers!
$6 million
Yep, that’s 6 million… dollars
The recipe?
Me (with Sales Page copywriter hat firmly on) + established brand + a decent following + a good chunk of FB ads change + 2000 words of Sales Page copy over 3 launches in 18 months
In fact, that Sales Page is still paying the clients today
No, not all Sales Pages will bring in millions over a couple of launches. No Sales Page is an island and this one had a lot of traffic being driven from all over the joint. But if you have a good following, a reputable brand, and a ripper offer – your Sales Page might just be the thing you need to nail to see results better than you ever have before. Shall we try our luck?
72 hours
And the couple of thousand dollars the client invested in finally outsourcing her Sales Page copy had been returned to her hot little bank account
Her offer investment wasn’t in the thousands, and she had to sell a good amount of sign-ups to see her ROI, but after just 3 days, every single sale that Sales Page made her after she hit launch made her cold, hard, delicious profit
Zero FB ads, middle-of-the-range audience, but a really, really good program and around 1500 words of copy with heart-hooks!
While I can’t promise the 6 million dollar outcome, this is my consistent goal – make your money back for you within a couple of days
50%
Conversion on a brand new Sales Page for a brand new offer.
You can expect about a 1% conversion rate on a decently written Sales Page you’ve either outsourced to a knowledgeable copywriter or done yourself with the help of online courses or resources, and between 3 – 4% if you outsource to a great copywriter (or really kill it yourself!) and this client was well prepared to be singularly thrilled with anything over 2%.
50%? She wasn’t expecting that. We doubled our luck with some converting launch emails and I showed her how to pull copy from the Sales Page and make it work with the social media templates I gave her, and what do you know?
Every second person who visited her page bought her offer.
See? Numbers are spiffy
The fact is, you’ll see a lot of these on a solid Sales Page copywriter’s website. They do seem fabulous. However, the truth is, they’re all numbers in isolation. They don’t take into account all those things mentioned in that 6 million dollar (so far) Sales Page – the ad spend, the prepped-to-be-hot audience, the social media pull, the waitlists!
The numbers we want to be very particular about are:
- how many people are you already connected to (through social media or your email list) that you’re fairly sure will be interested in the offer you want to launch on your Sales Page?
- how much of a percentage of your total investment will you be spending on this page? (I don’t want to talk myself out of a job here, but part of my job working for you is to help you figure out if this is a viable investment, and if you give me all your launch budget and save none for list building, launch email writing, social media advertising, and overall strategy, I’m not doing either of us a favour.)
- and, to a much lesser degree, what’s your offer price? Because I want to ensure your Sales Page copy makes the number your reader comes to at the end of your page – and it feels to them like a total no brainer.
So, yeah, good Sales Page writers will quote numbers at you. But this wee section of this Sales Page? You won’t see a lot of this kind of explanation anywhere else.
Sales Pages work best when blended up with copy strategy – so that’s part of our plan.
Done with the DIY and ready to talk dollars?
Download my Copy Menu with all pricing and inclusions (includes link to chat, if you need, and an application form)
Already know you’re in?
“…Jay wiggled her magic writing fingers and turned my messy brain dump into the most magical of words. Words that sound like me, but that I could have never written myself.
Believe me, I’d tried…”
If you’re thinking, “that’s all fab, ladyface, but I still don’t have a flipping clue what this ‘conversion copy’ thing is you speak of”, here’s the Brodie’s Notes version:
There’s some myth that Sales Page copywriters work on manipulating readers to do something they weren’t thinking of doing.
Balderdash, I reckon.
Or that conversion copy is so American and never works in other markets.
Codswallop.
Because your ideal clients are smart, savvy, and conscious buyers, and it’s hardly likely we’ll be able to trick them into buying anything they weren’t already semi-interested in before they landed on our Sales Page.
The truth is: your next best person is reading your Sales Page because they already want the thing you’re selling
Now, we just have to persuade them (not manipulate, because; unnecessary) to buy that thing you’re selling from you.
How?
By working with a Sales Page copywriter who knows:
- Sales Pages aren’t just writing.
- They aren’t just design.
- They’re not just formulas, promptplates, power words, structure, or storytelling.
They’re a blend of everything above with a large dollop of human psychology and empathy thrown in.
Luckily, I am like the Honoured Professor at the School of Copy for Humans (practically, I teach women how to do this very thing).
What about the investment?
You might notice my copywriting offerings are specialised. I don’t write social media copy, or blogs, or award submissions, or anything generalist. I only offer copy editing for return clients and I don’t work with anyone I don’t 1000% believe I can help. Email and website copy, specifically About Pages, Sales Pages, Launch emails, and Brand Voice development are my specialities.
My aim? To get the dosh you invested with me to get this thing written back to you ASAP.
How? By selling as many of your things as possible in the shortest amount of time.
I’m a Sales Page copywriter and copy teacher with skin in the game, runs on the board, and Sales Pages that tell the truth.
Because – here’s the truth – your ideal client doesn’t need manipulation, FOMO, scare tactics, charm pricing, or any of that other ridiculous unethical malarkey taught by traditional copywriters to newbie Sales Page copywriters.
Your ideal client? She’s smarter than that.
So are you, which is why you are here considering spending thousands of dollars on outsourcing this job, rather than paying another grasping copywriter a couple hundred bucks to whip up another that may. not. convert.
Standalone Sales Pages are custom quoted
keeping in mind, you can bundle this service with my other copywriting services and pay a package price
from $5000 AUD for around 1500 words
Here’s how the process will work:
Brand Briefing
We’ll meet over a cup (tea, gin, whatever you need) on Zoom where we’ll dig around in your brand soul and ideal client (pain-free, mostly). We’ll couple this with your Brand TOV work (and if you’ve never completed this, we can do that together too)
Mine For Gold
I’ll interview your favourite (and ideal) clients to get great testimonials and use the language they use to describe how fabulous you are. If you don’t have enough current clients, I’ll also interview the kind of folk you want to work with or sell to
SEO It
Your long-tail keyword phrase will be researched by my colleague then worked in so organically by me, it could be certified (and, if you need, you’ll get an extra couple of recommended keyword phrases to keep in your back pocket for further copy projects)
First Draft Delivery
Around 2 weeks later, you’ll receive your new optimised Sales Page copy with structure suggestions for design and user experience straight into your inbox. Copy that encompasses your brand soul and all your professional quals. Copy that makes your ideal client feel like you’ve reached into their heart and pulled out their deepest desires and spoken directly to them, so much so they’re asking themselves, “who IS this woman and how did I exist before I met her?” Copy that sounds like you, only better
Tweak It
You’ll then have 10 days to roll around in the copy. Sweet.
You might not need the time – over 95% of my clients breathe out, pop the champers, and upload their new Sales Page straight into the right spot. This is the opportunity to make tweaks, ask questions, get some changes made. We want to get this bang on.
Send me back your tracked changes and I’ll deliver you a final, clean copy, colour coded so your developer or VA can easily upload your new copy
Sell EVERYTHING
You’ll promote your new Sales Page all over the internet
BONUS!
If you can get me back some data, 6 weeks after the final delivery date I’ll review your copy conversions and make small tweaks to the copy based on the data.
You can also book me for a 3 or 6 month review at this time
“…She created my uniquely ‘me’ brand voice and filled my Home Page, About Page and my Signature Program Sales Page to the brim with words that attract, influence and support my ideal clients to choose me from the many other website designers online…”
I’m Jay Crisp Crow
and here are some things you should know if you’re considering whether I’m the right Sales Page conversion copywriter for you
- Made 3 months of income in 3 days with a mid-length Sales page and a warm list (and sold out)
- Wrote a 2000 word Sales Page for a client they used to enjoy 3 x 2 million dollar launches
- Normally doesn’t like labels but accepted “High Priestess of Copy” from Dr Ricci-Jane Adams after tackling her program Sales Page in 2017
- Works SEO keywords into copy so organically, it could be certified
- Has a flexible but tried-and-tested process to get all the facts (and other stuff you may not think is important but I’ll actually turn into powerful selling elements) from out of your head and onto the page
- Been at this for 7 years now and made a whole lot of people a whole lot of money
- Uses innate empathetic and intuitive powers to read between ‘your’ lines so I can get in the head and heart of your ideal clients. (This is completely woo and I’ll tell you all about it if you’re into that or never mention it again if you’re not!)
- Doesn’t accept Sales Page work for products or services I’m not completely aware or totally comfortable with (but will recommend you onto someone great for you)
- Teaches other people who want to be copywriters how to do this stuff
- Regularly buys things on the internet. (OK, this just means “shopping addict”, perhaps.)
- Leaves ego at the door. Process includes encouraging you to pull apart the first draft, if that’s your desire, then putting it back together for you – even better than the first time
- Generally has a 4 – 6 week lead time (so get thinking!)
- You’re still reading this right now. That says something, right?
- Has a juicy assortment of testimonials you can read through here
I want to make this process as easy-peasy as possible for you
Cripes, let’s face it, you’ve enough tough businessing things to do today.
I’m promising you this form is not only going to take you 5 minutes (tops) to answer all my questions, but is also the very best way for me to gauge whether I’m a good fit for your Sales Page copywriting.
My done-for-you Sales Page copywriting service starts at around $5000 (+ GST if you’re an Australian client) for a mid-length Sales Page. If you haven’t already downloaded my Copy Menu, here’s the link. There are pre-payment plans available should you need. I generally do have a bit of a lead time, so let me know if you’re in a copy emergency and need a +25% rush rate quoted.
If you can give me as much juicy information as you can in the pretty boxes below, I’ll get back to you (over email) within 3 business days with some fabulous options.
Oh, delicious satisfaction
Better than a degustation
Jay’s words hit the spot.
Jay wiggled her magic writing fingers and turned my messy brain dump into the most magical of words. Words that sound like me, but that I could have never written myself. Believe me, I’d tried.
My old website was boring. Generic and bland. I was playing it safe. Blending in.
I’m proud to stand out now. My website is now filled with stacks of wonderful words that have my perfect people falling in love with me.
I was initially scared that the time Jay and I spent chatting about my business, my geekiness, and my odd-ball quirks wouldn’t be enough time for her to really capture my voice. I was wrong. She got it. First go.
I shared her copy with some clients and they ALL came back to me saying “that sounds so much like you”. I had fallen in love with the copy. But to hear that was amazing.
Jay is my go-to gal, for all things wordy.
She created my uniquely ‘me’ brand voice and filled my Home Page, About Page and my Signature Program Sales Page to the brim with words that attract, influence and support my ideal clients to choose me from the many other website designers online.
My business is now almost stress-free. My calendar is filling up with people who are looking for a human speaking web geek to join their team. Not just a code-monkey, hired to mash a keyboard on command.
‘How much is a website?” Argh. That question used to curse me. Not anymore.
I’m no longer plagued by tire kickers or time wasters.
I’m now working with my perfect clients. Every day.
Jay Crisp Crow stood out to me online by keeping it real and cracking me up. I loved her attitude and honesty. We got into a conversation about photoshoots and inspirations and I was hooked! So when I needed to level up my business I had a few choices I could make. Hiring her was the right choice.
She sent me everything I needed, super step-by-step easy, and actually got me to sit down and really get into my vision.
Then she sent me copy. It was like she was in my head but way BETTER! She took my topic, a taboo topic (periods!), and my humour, and combined them to make something that was accessible to normal human beings.
I’m so far in my own world that it’s hard for me to bring it back to basics, to explain what’s happening in a way that other people can understand. To create a real connection with me and my audience. I’ve never gotten to the end of a sales page and been sad, but reading Jay’s first draft I was so sorry to see the end!
I’m beyond thrilled with what Jay created for me and my sales page, and I’ll be bringing her on board for so many more projects to come!
THANK YOU Jay! I spent years struggling to get a cohesive, sensible, Sales page together, I wish I had found you years ago.
Working with Jay was exactly what I needed, it refined my brand and clarified it for me in ways I did not anticipate the process could. The way Jay does this is part of her unique skill as a writer and coach.
My business needed a copywriter because I was both re-branding and evolving my private practice as a psychotherapist into the new territory of neurofeedback. I was drowning in copy and jargon for my website and needed assistance to prioritise the key message and communicate my services that sits uniquely in the wellness space, I needed to capture my target audience (in a way that did not put them to sleep!)
Enter Jay…who did this incredibly well by overhauling the whole framework of my website; she prioritised key content beautifully (no small task) and advised me of what material would best be converted on the blog.
Jay was excellent at finding the ‘sweet spot’ in tone and somehow digesting reams of information into a few salient, critical pages of crisp web copy that flowed and reflected what I do in a compelling way. Which was my brief; Jay exceeded my expectations and added value at every turn. As well as doing this, Jay nurtures the essence of the person behind the brand.
Her uncanny ability to get into my head moved me to tears a few times, and she was gracious with quite a few late night “WOW!” email messages. She also had me scrambling to understand how she possibly managed to find almost identical words and concepts I had used 10 years ago in presentations – which captured deeply held ideas; as it turns out, it is in her profound listening skills, somehow she gently found a way into the back catalogues of my mind to bring forth the gold!
Ever heard of funnel shame? Yup, that’s what I had and I knew it was because of my copy so I was hiding my course because I didn’t want anyone going through the email funnel. Jay had been on my list of people to work with and I finally drummed up the courage (and cash) to get her eyes on my copy for a well overdue edit.
Jay cured my funnel shame with her copy editing magic and I’m super proud to be promoting my course again.
I loved working with Jay, as her application process was simple and her copy skills out of this world. It was easy to submit my brief and communicate with Jay along the way. I highly recommend working with Jay if you have funnel shame too, she’s seriously a sales copywriting gem.
Jay doesn’t just write website copy, it doesn’t even begin to cover what she does.
Our website was, well shameful. I had knocked it up before the business even started and as the business grew we never had the time to update it, but it didn’t represent us as a company or what we can do.
Over Zoom Jay and I sat and chatted for over an hour discussing everything from our business objectives, the kind of clients we were looking to attract, our SEO hit list and the type of voice I wanted to shine through the website to keep our branding consistent across all our digital platforms.
And she did it, better than I could have possibly imagined, not just the perfect website copy that said all the right things, but Call To Actions in all the right places and tied in with how it should be formatted around images for ultimate impact and user experience.
You can’t afford NOT to be using Jay for your website.
I’d definitely recommend Jay to anyone after a professional, excellent and fun experience with a spectacular end result.
You nailed it first go…thank you and look forward to working with you again.
Before I had ever spoken to Jay, I had laughed or cried my way through most of her work. I hung off every brilliantly crafted word, hooked and moved. I was a total fangirl and knew that I wanted her on my team.
Initially, I thought I would learn from her, since I’ve always been a decent writer and quite enjoy the process, plus she has a whole range of coaching and DIY training options. Turns out, what I’m not decent at is blowing my own horn. And that’s where Jay came in.
From the moment we started working together, she got my brand. It was as if she had been in my head when I was creating it.
She understood my people and how to speak to them and she injected personality and fun in places I would have just ‘played it safe’ (thanks for that, corporate life).
Working with Jay is more than just copywriting though, as an astute businesswoman, you also get a sounding board, someone that gets it, and has an eye for what will and won’t work. She’s not afraid to challenge you and call you out when she knows you can do better. It’s like copywriting and coaching rolled into one. Needless to say, I’m I bigger fan than ever now. Jay’s written my Home, About Me and Work With Me pages as well as two program Sales pages, with more in the pipeline.
Jay is the queen of brand personality.
In a digital world full of content competing for eyeballs and conversions, Jay is the magic formula to making your brand stand out from the crowd and actually talk to your customers. Her style is unique, it’s bold and it cuts through the noise.
Jay was able to capture the essence of my brand, give it structure and now it simply dances off the page.
I couldn’t be happier with the service and very talented copywriting delivered.
Ohhhh, so you’re a *reader*! We’re going to get along just fine! Here are the FAQ you might have made it to the bottom of this page to read:
What even *is* copywriting?
Well, hello, my new friend! How did you make your way here? If we haven’t met before, I’m a copywriter. Has zip to do with legals, everything to do with words that make your best new client or customer absolutely fall over themselves to hand over their credit card details and possibly also propose some kind of long term relationship with your brand.
Copywriting is a process of carefully structuring the right words to make the reader take an action. It’s words that sell things – from your product Sales page to the back cover advertisement in a newspaper.
Good copywriting showcases not only the features of your service or product but also the benefits, and makes your ideal clients realise they need your thing – it converts readers to buyers and compels the people you want to sell to to take an action.
Why can't I find a Sales Page copy editing rate on your website?
If you have existing website copy that’s doing the job, but no longer in alignment with your brand, you might need a hard edit. This is more than just proofreading and editing for spelling and grammar, this is copy editing – pulling apart what you’ve got and sorting it out, and putting it back together. Better.
This service is only available to previous clients and by
Why should I choose you to write my Sales Page?
Because, well, I make people cry. There’s proof of this on my testimonial page.
I’m a terrible cook, can’t count for nuts, but I write killer copy that makes your new favourite people want to be all over your offerings.
Also, I’m ridiculously lovely to work with.
And, honestly, if you’re all the way down the bottom of this page and still here, we’re probably meant to be. In alignment – you care about the things I do – amplification of women’s voices, putting power in the hands of our next generation of change-makers, creating, and funding, a life from your business that means you have choices.
But, how will you write in *my* voice?
This is the golden
I’ll tell you the truth – it’s a little
I’m a naturally empathetic copywriter with an inherent ability to listen. When we have our first Zoom session, I hear all the words you mean to say. When I read your answers to my emails, I look for the gold between the lines. To be honest – writing the copy is the easy part. Finding the brand voice is the key to writing you in a way that’ll make you cry when you first read it. You’ll feel heard, acknowledged, and presented to the online world in the way you’d always wished for.
I can’t tell you anything more than that or I’ll be giving everything away.
I noticed you're an Australian copywriter and I'm in the US/UK/Mars!
No probs, Bob. And I won’t use Australian colloquialisms like that when I write your copy, promise.
This is all covered in our first branding session where I uncover your brand voice and then use it everywhere. You’ll find yourself thinking, “how did she know I say things like that?”
If we start with mapping out a Brand Voice Guide together, you can also pass on this resource to anyone who ever writes for your brand for them to use too.
Why does Sales Page copywriting cost much more in comparison to your other pages?
I’m not the cheapest copywriter you can hire. Not by a long shot. But check out my testimonials page and you’ll see I’m worth it. This isn’t my side-hustle; I’m a dedicated, full-time writer who works with clients who value craftsmanship and conversion. And I specialise in Sales copy – for websites and emails – which includes About Pages, no – seriously!
Also, you probably won’t be asking this if you’re visiting this site from the US or UK – in Australia we have hugely differing expectations about copywriting rates. I have a middle-of-the-range hourly rate in comparison with a global industry and provide above-average work. Yes, you can hire a copywriter for $35 an hour from Fiverr, and when you want that copy fixed in a couple of months – you know where to find me.
I’ll always quote you upfront and by the package. That means if my time blows out, you won’t pay for it.
Remember, you can bundle this Sales Page with other copy services. Packages get you much more bang for your buck.
How long will the entire process take?
That mostly depends on you. I usually have around an 8 week lead time (during which there’ll be things both of us are working on) and then, depending on how quickly I get the information I need from you, it’s generally another 4 weeks to return your first draft.
I do offer a rush rate option, which adds 25% to your invoice.
What if I don't love something you write?
Well then, that’s it. We aren’t mates anymore.
Gosh no, that’s a joke. Communication is key and even if you start off thinking you are 100% sure of what you want, sometimes when you get it, you realise you might want to change tack. That’s OK, sometimes we need a change of brief and to start again. We’ll negotiate if that happens. Otherwise, it’s usually just an issue of making a round of tweaks
I work in a diverse range of industries and although I might be the Word Witch, you’re undoubtedly more experienced in your industry’s jargon, terminology, and tone than I am. Sometimes we’ll need to dig into those tweaks, which is what the round of amendments is for. In fact, when I send you back the first draft I’ll actively encourage you to pick it apart – print it out and scribble on it, use tracking changes and ask 35 questions, make suggested edits – that’s all part of the process.
What do I need to do to start?
My done-for-you copywriting services are by application. This is to ensure that you’re the right fit for me, and also I’m the right copywriter for you.
To begin the process, ensure you’re:
- Hip with the pricing in the Copy Menu and
- Fill out the application form
I’ll walk you through everything from there.
What about SEO?
SEO stands for Search Engine Optimisation. There are a tonne of elements you need to consider if you’re improving your SEO and SEO copywriting is a major part of the puzzle.
I carefully weave SEO keyword terms into your human-centric copy so Google can tell what you’d like to rank for and help you get found.
If you *know* you don’t give a fig about a longtail SEO keyword for this page and you really don’t want it, you can whip $300 off the cost of the page.
I love SEO keywords, and I love being found on the Google. But I never sacrifice conversion copy for a longtail keyword phrase, and I don’t stuff boring-butt keywords into headers multiple times just because your SEO person thinks they should go there.
Humans first. Google happily second.
Do you charge GST?
Yes, only for Australian clients. You can ignore this if you’re international.
I really like you but, I just can't afford this yet.
I really like you too.
Here’s the thing; I have two kinds of favourite clients. Ideal done-for-you copy clients who’ve been around for a bit, know the value of outsourcing their copy, and know they’re going to make a return on this investment.
I also have a massive drive to see women in startup or transition phase get their words working for them so they can sell any darn thing they like. That’s why I offer a range of low-cost, free, or probably-going-to-pay-you-back-if-you-implement resources you can use to write your own copy, make it make you money, and then – if you need – you can come back to me with some dosh in the bank ready to spend on editing or outsourcing altogether. Check them out here.
And if you want to use my *exact* basic structure I start all my Sales Page copywriting with, you can download my cheap-as-chips template here or learn to write Sales Page copy from me here.
©Crisp Copy
2016 – 2023
If you steal my words I’ll send my teenagers to your house… with their kitten
Jay Crisp Crow She/Her – Words that open hearts and bank accounts for folk identifying as women